Rupa na saksiji

[chakija]

Ovih dana razmišljam šta bih pravio novo od zvučnika.

Beyma coax je bio savršen kontrast za trenutne kutije i super zamena kada dosadi jedna vrsta zvuka.

Malo mi glupavo da pravim iste kutije, ali gledajući po 300ti put dostupne drajvere ponovo se vraćam na beymu 10".

Svadbarska kutija mi je bila najkompletnija kada je opseg 50-20000Hz u pitanju. Sa trenutnim sub-ovima, to bi definitivno bio zvuk za druženje na duže staze.

 

Ono što sam imao na umu je neka kompaktna zatvorena (ili ako baš mora BR) kutija sa visoko efikasnim 10" midbasom koji može da se spusti do nekih ~80Hz (-3db) + 1,4" (ili 2") kompresioni koji može da se spusti do ~800Hz.

Ono što me zanima, a vezano za naslov teme a i kompaktnost takve kutije - da li je neko koristio mrgu od kvalitetniijih kompresionih bez horne?

Video sam na par mesta da su neki likovi imali avanture u ovom smeru sa kompresionim tipa CP755nd i pri tom imali navodno odlične rezultate 

[Aleks]

Staaaara priča, SWR300 ili Deltalite 2512 pa sa tom Beymom, ne bi trebalo da bude komplikovana skretnica, 1st order sečeš  tipa na 2500 šta znam

Ja bi odatle pošao, moglo bi da bude interesantno  

Inače, jeste rupa, Pi speakers koncept, bavio si se ti već time beše

[chakija]

Poenta je korišćenje kompresionog BEZ horne... To već nisam radio

[Aleks]

Ne vidim razlog da to ne svira dobro, horna je tu da uveća ionako visoku efikasnost kompresionog visokog te disperzuje zvuk, i to radi super za svoju namenu - razglasni sistem kome je to uloga, da bude što glasniji za što manje vati i da se širi što više u prostoriji gde se ljudi vesele.

Uprošćeno rečeno  

Elem, u kućnim uslovima nema razloga da to ne sviri fino, za par slušaoca zavaljenih u fotelje.

Viđao sam po YT te stvari, onako u internet prenešenom snimku, zvuči fino.

[Aleks]

Što veli gazda Wayne

AudioRoundTable.com: Pi Speakers » HF Compression driver without horn flare?

AUDIOROUNDTABLE.COM

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Audio advice and discussions with audiophiles and professionals. Free discussion forums, open to all and frequented by industry experts. Ask questions and get advice on stereos, speakers, hi-end amplifiers, pre-amps, home theater, tube hi-fi, turntables, vinyl, tweaks, music, films, video, DVDs and more.

Probao bih ja bez, ako ne valja baš mnogo onda barem najosnovniji vaweguide

[Vix]

Evo jos jedne rupice :

 

audioXpress Editor

AUDIOXPRESS.COM

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The 10HX230 10" coaxial professional driver from Faital Pro is another interesting example in the category, particularly well-received in professional audio applications. The Faital Pro 10" 10HX230 driver expands the...

 

[NIXIE]

100Hz-10kHz. To tek kad odeš u penziju. 

Visoki iznad 10k su 10dB tiši od ostatka.

[zerowaf]

Kad odemo u peMziju, tj. imamo 65 godina, tada je i cvrkut ptica u dvorištu na minus 10 dB.
Onda trebaju zvulje koje sviraju plus deset gore da kompenziraju filter kojeg čine dlake u ušima i skoreni vosak. Nešto kao pola RIAA-e, da ne spušta visoke nego da samo malo vrati sredinu i bas.  

[chakija]

Vix, taj faital mi je bio prva opcija posle beyme. 

Jel ima neko unaske da je probao neki bolji 1.4 ili 2" kompresioni bez horne? Pretpostavljam da većina koja se napolju igrala je imala neku vrstu dsp-a. Ja bih išao na pasivnu varijantu. Sva ova zajebancija bi bila zbog udovoljavanja BF8 

[NIXIE]

Nije skup, ali nije ni preterano linearan.

/thumbs/2520x1680xfar0/ciare-pt383-pid-20862.jpg

Ciare PT383 Horn Tweeter | Altoparlanti home e professional - Tweeter

WWW.RGSOUND.IT

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Leggi la scheda prodotto Ciare PT383 Horn Tweeter | Altoparlanti home e professional - Tweeter 8 Ohm

 

[Zen Mod]

1 hour ago, chakija said:

Jel ima neko unaske da je probao neki bolji 1.4 ili 2" kompresioni bez horne?

mozes, kao super visoki, iznad 10KHz

[krca44]

pre 17 časa, chakija reče

Poenta je korišćenje kompresionog BEZ horne... To već nisam radio

Vidi ovde :

https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/beyond-the-ariel.100392/page-767

Par stranica pre toga Lynn objasnjava koncept - zatvorena kutija / kompresija + cd & Horna

 

Smo probaj da gabaritno smanjis koncept.

 

P.S. Izvini sad vidim da sam malo omasio al nema veze probao je on i RAAL kao visoki pa mozda odatle nesto uspes da izvuces.

Izmenjeno Decembar 12, 2023 od krca44

[krca44]

Evo da ti citiram kako je radio kutiju i skretnicu drugog reda :

 

"Going into more detail on the Altec Valencia and the Altec Model 19, the Valencia was a pre-Theile/Small vented speaker with a very basic 12 dB/octave crossover at a nominal 800 Hz. No horn EQ.

The Model 19 came out ten years later as the successor to the Valencia. The bass cabinet is a T/S vented bass alignment in a 9 cubic foot enclosure, and the crossover was moved up to 1200 Hz, with adjustable mid and HF equalization. The bass driver and HF horn were essentially the same as before, while the compression driver was improved with the Tangerine phase plug.

Another difference between the Valencia and the Model 19 was the Valencia was designed at the end of the tube era, and transistors had completely replaced tube amps when the Model 19 was designed.

The new speaker is intended for use with triode amplifiers with damping factors of about 4 (Zout = 2 ohms), a closed box is a better choice, giving an overall system Qts between 0.9 and 1.0, not that different than the classic acoustic suspension speakers of the Fifties ... a moderate bass lift. Crossovers are similar, and the horn is a much flatter modern design."

 

"It is standard practice to sum all resistances appearing at the terminals of the bass speaker ... output Z of the amplifier + cable resistance + DCR of the series inductor(s) of the lowpass section of the crossover. As mentioned above, this raises the system Qts if the box size is the same, but can be offset if the box size is increased.

The overall goal is to have the Altec/GPA 416 Alnico-magnet driver in a loosely filled closed box, with source Z's between 1 and 2 ohms, and also accounting for "room lift" in the below-60 Hz region. An alternate approach is to use a vented box with about twice the volume, preferably in an alignment with favorable group delay characteristics.

Both LF and HF sections use a passive crossover in the 640 to 800 Hz range, powered by a single amplifier in the 10 to 60-watt range. The expected attenuation in the HF section will be about 10 to 12 dB, with a shelf equalizer if the Yuichi A290 or ES290 type horn is used.

It is a simple 2-way system optimized for vacuum tube amplifiers with zero to moderate feedback. If response down to 20 Hz is desired, that can be provided with a separately powered pair of subwoofers. In that application, Class AB or Class D amplifiers are the best choice, since they have the most power, are the most efficient, and there is limited impression of tonality below 40 Hz."

 

"I want to thank Joseph (Troy) Crowe for his extensive measurements on the Altec/GPA 416 Alnico in a 100L sealed box enclosure. I suspect the very low IM distortion is the result of the underhung voice coil, which is very rare in modern drivers. I am also gratified to see the cumulative-decay (waterfall) curves are as good as they are.

416 Measurements :
https://josephcrowe.com/blogs/news/altec-416-8b-in-100l-sealed

I also want to thank Gary Dahl for completing the Beyond the Ariel project with his sealed-box Great Plains Audio 416 Alnicos and the AH425 Azurahorn. He's chosen the extremely rare Yamaha 6688 compression driver, while I will be following Joseph Crowe's guidance on the SB Audience CDN-65T driver, which has remarkable performance for a large format compression driver.

I will be contacting Joseph Crowe for guidance on getting the last mile of this project done: an optimal crossover, most probably using an 1.8 kHz notch filter for the 416, and a 3D-printed or NC-milled adaptor between the 1.4" circular exit of the CDN-65T driver and the 2.0" square entrance of the Athos Audio Yuichi A290 wood horn. Alternatively, using Crowe's own ES-290 wood horn, but I already have both AH425's and A290's horns sitting in the basement, awaiting use. I don't think I need three sets of horns to play with, but who knows?

The measurements referenced above show a crossover in the 640 to 800 Hz region is well-suited to the 416, especially with a moderate notch filter tuned to 1.8 kHz. I still favor large format compression drivers, since they allow a crossover well below 1.2 kHz, in the 500 to 800 Hz region. An octave makes a big difference in this frequency region.

The SB Audience driver is unusual because it extends smoothly to 17 kHz, while most drivers with 3 to 4-inch diameter Ti or Al diaphragms usually have their first resonance around 13 kHz. I don't know what SB has done, but that is exceptional performance, approaching carbon fiber or beryllium diaphragms, at one-third to one-tenth the price.

As for other questions, I have no recommendations for transistor amplifiers, either Class AB or Class D, or bipolar transistor vs GaN FET. From what I heard at the Seattle show, Class D using GaN FETs has come a long way, and has surpassed linear Class AB transistor, but still isn't quite in DHT triode territory yet. But is getting close."

[krca44]

Na temu CD drajvera bez horne videh slike Altec kutija na kojima je to probano, pre jedno 60-70 godina pa su izgleda odmah odustali ( neki komerc model ).

Znam da su neki ljudi to radili relativno skoro ali iz onoga sto sam procitao / video to mi izgleda dosta nedoreceno - tipa sta su mane i slicno.

[chakija]

Varijacija na temu saksije 

U poseti su mi sjajni "malci" by Sync. 

Beyma cp385nd+sth100/faital 6rs140 u BR kutiji dosta niskog tjuninga. 

Super pokazna vežba kako zvuče dve totalno različite filozofije zvuka, a obe su vrhunske. 

[chakija]

Epilog posle malo igranja sa skretnicama - Falconi otišli dalje, Faitali ostali (videćemo koliko dugo)

Dve totalno drugačije filozofije zvuka. Prelomna tačka je BF8 i lepota+dinamika koju pokazuje sa hi-eff/pro drajverima.

Daleko od toga da je loše radio sa Falconima - naprotiv! To je jedan od boljih sound-ova koji sam imao.

Nadam se da ću ovih dana moći da poslušam i moderne "sise" !

Mali tizer:

 

[Zen Mod]

koji je to driver?

[Zen Mod]

 

[Vix]

A da predlozimo Aleksu da doda sise na FR?  

[chakija]

28 minutes ago, Zen Mod said:

koji je to driver?

Našao ga očas posla

Deluje da je modifikovan celestion coax.

[Zen Mod]

ckupa rabota za nas Cheapskaters

[zerowaf]

pre 13 časa, Vix reče

A da predlozimo Aleksu da doda sise na FR?  

 

Svakako!

Dobar par sisa su kao glazbeni intermezzo u danu.

Ako su na zvučniku, ne može da škodi, a ako ne škodi....tko zna. Moglo bi i da pomogne.