"usviravanje" zvucnika

[Blade]

nije uopste zezanje - ovo je ozbiljno pitanje :scratch_head:to sto sam stuff ne mora da znaci i da sam expet za DIY i Audio

Pa dobro ali ne ide bas ni da budes totalna neznalica.

[revox]

jeste

[Zen Mod]

Blade ne diraj mi Miku

[Blade]

Blade ne diraj mi Miku

Jok bre, mi imamo specijalan odnos, nista se ne sekiraj ! (Miko, to je nasa tajna, nikom ni reci! )

[Mikorist]

Pa dobro ali ne ide bas ni da budes totalna neznalica.

ajde posto si znalac- reci mi sta se brze usvirava visokotonac ili bas ? i zasto :sarcastic_hand:pitanje za sve:da li je neko uspeo da izmeri promene u zvuku izmedju 0 i recimo 100 radnih casova zvucnika ?ako se zvucnik usvirava koji to TS parametri , menjaju sonicni kvalitet ?

[Blade]

ajde posto si znalac - reci mi sta se brze usvirava visokotonac ili bas ? i zasto

U principu se usvirava ceo zvucnik, ceo sistem.Ali kao bas insistiras, onda vise vremena treba za bas, pretpostavljam.

[Mikorist]

U principu se usvirava ceo zvucnik, ceo sistem.Ali kao bas insistiras, onda vise vremena treba za bas, pretpostavljam.

Ceo sistem ali bez visokotonca.Visokotonski zvucnik uopste ne usvirava ili se tako malo vremenski usvirava i da je zanemarljivo (par sekundi ako nije testiran u fabrici)-----jedan od tekstova :Well, there are, indeed, several mechanism that are, indeed, at workthat cause the operating parameters of drivers to change through use.However, the notion that once one gets a speaker home it requires"breaking in" suffers from several problems.First, as a driver comes off the line, it's actual performance iffairly far from it's intended performance target. Reasons for thisinclude the fact that the centering spider, typically manufacturedfrom a varnish- impregnated linen, is far stiffer than needed. Workingthe driver back and forth lossens the spider considerably.Now, one might say: there's objective proof of the need to "break in"a loudspeaker! Not so fast. The break-in period for the spider is onthe order of several seconds, and if it takes you several seconds orminutes or whatever once you get the speakers home to loosen thecentering spdier, it's not proof of the need to break thme in, it'sproof that the speaker you just bought HAS NEVER BEEN TESTED!But, on to other points.When I measure a driver, I can see a significant change in a varietyof operating parameters as the speaker is driven. Usually, in woofer,the resonant frequency drops as the speaker is used, often by as muchas 10-20%. This is due, as you suggest, to a relaxing of theelastomers used in the suspension.However. If I turn the stimulus off, within a few minutes most, if notall, of the change has completely recovered, and we're back to goagain. The elstomer has recovered from it's stresses (this isespecially true of certain polybutadene-styrene surroundformulations).There are plenty of other, real, physical changes. For example, onecan see a reduction of the electrical Q with time under heavy use,simply because of the positive temperature coefficient of theresistance of the voice coil. Allow the speaker to cool down, and it'scompletely recoverable.Get it hot enough, and you might permanently loose some flux densityin the magnet. But you have to get REAL hot to do that. Hotter thanmost of the compounds used in making a speaker can endure withoutcatastrophic failure (damned few glues, varnishes, cones andinsulating materials can withstand the temperatures neede to reach theCurie points of the typical magnetic materials found in loudspeakers).>What I really think is at play in all this is the adaptive signal>processing abilities of the brain. It is not the speakers which get>broken in, rather it is ones 'ears'.When this has been suggested, despite the fact there's about a centuryof research backing it, it is more often than not greated with jearsand cires. See, you can't sell special "break-in" CD's if the speakersaren't broken in.>I would be interested to hear other opinions on this.Well, there will be loads of opinions. However, actual data on severalthousand drivers don't seem to give two shits about opinions, theusual claims of "mysterious unmeasurable quantities" notwithstanding.-- | Dick Pierce || Loudspeaker and Software Consulting || 17 Sartelle Street Pepperell, MA 01463 || (508) 433-9183 (Voice and FAX) |

[stein]

I to je već 480 sati!Ako u prosjeku nekome hifa radi tri sata dnevno približavamo se onome što je moj prijatelj iskusio sa Lowtherima DX2.

Kažem, nije zezanje. Ja sam tako usvirao svoje fostexe. Isprva su bili pure crap, posle deset dana bearable crap, posle još deset dana audible piece of furniture downstairs

[Ikaro]

Čim se deca malo zaigrala, Mika vadi keca iz rukava .Uz SAL drajver ide knjižica sa karakteristikama, i ako se dobro sećam piše 10 sati na pola snage...Jedino nisu napisali, da posle tih 10 sati naručiš nov drajver

[zerowaf]

Kažem, nije zezanje. Ja sam tako usvirao svoje fostexe. Isprva su bili pure crap, posle deset dana bearable crap, posle još deset dana audible piece of furniture downstairs

...................Mika, nisam čitao do kraja onaj c/p. Došao sam do dijela gdje objašnjava da se stvari nakon što zvučnik miruje vraćaju na staro.Da dolijem još malo ulja na vatru - Imao sam pred koju godinu nekakve Viena acoustic floorstandere koji nisu radili preko godine dana. Zvuk mi se nije svidio na prvu loptu - jako napumpan bas iz plastične 13cm membrane i povučeni visoki. Nakon više od mjesec dana sviranja kod mene se zvuk ipak malo otvorio, ali i dalje mi se nije sviđao, pa su ih zamijenili prije spomenuti Audience. Nije to niti jedini takav primjer. Imam frenda koji ima trgovinu nove i rabljene "haj end" opreme (Zen zna o kome pričam) i njegova iskustva su također slična. Mislim da u svakom trenutku ima barem 10 pari zvučnika koji mu stoje nekorišteni od 6-12 mjeseci iako je uredio čak 5 slušaonica sa kompletnim set-upovima za mušterije I on kaže da kad složi neki set up sa zvuljama koje nisu duže vrijeme radile (a rabljene su, dakle i usvirane) treba nekoliko dana da se to sve umiri i prestane mijenjati zvuk.Inaće, iako mu je hifa posao, uopće ne zarezuje većinu mitova koji se mogu isčitati po forumima!

[Mikorist]

...................Mika, nisam čitao do kraja onaj c/p. Došao sam do dijela gdje objašnjava da se stvari nakon što zvučnik miruje vraćaju na staro.Nakon više od mjesec dana sviranja kod mene se zvuk ipak malo otvorio, ali i dalje mi se nije sviđao, pa su ih zamijenili prije spomenuti Audience. Nije to niti jedini takav primjer. Imam frenda koji ima trgovinu nove i rabljene "haj end" opreme (Zen zna o kome pričam) i njegova iskustva su također slična. ... I on kaže da kad složi neki set up sa zvuljama koje nisu duže vrijeme radile (a rabljene su, dakle i usvirane) treba nekoliko dana da se to sve umiri i prestane mijenjati zvuk.

ovde takodje treba razgraniciti dve razlicite stvari.Ono sto se "raz-svirava" u zvucniku su njegovi mehanicki delovi.i to sto se "raz-svirava" je BAS drajver....ono sto je "usvirano i dalje" - jesu lemovi , ozicenje, delovi skretnice.....ti delovi i jedino mogu da "otvore" vremenom malo visoke

[zerowaf]

ovde takodje treba razgraniciti dve razlicite stvari.Ono sto se "raz-svirava" u zvucniku su njegovi mehanicki delovi.i to sto se "raz-svirava" je BAS drajver....ono sto je "usvirano i dalje" - jesu lemovi , ozicenje, delovi skretnice.....ti delovi i jedino mogu da "otvore" vremenom malo visoke

Dobro, sad smo bacili malo svjetla na situaciju. (ne želim ništa uzimati zdravo za gotovo jer nisam elektroničar niti fizičar, a znamo je internet mjesto gdje možeš ako se potrudiš naći "validnu" potvrdu, koja čak niti ne zvuči loše objašnjena za jednog laika, za ama baš svako mišljenje)Činjenica je da nam zvulje zvuče bolje nakon u/raz-sviravanja, činjenica je da nam i horne sa jednim FR driverom zvuče bolje nakon toga iako nemaju skretnicu, činjenica je i da su mi Lowtheri mog prijatelja zvučali bolje kad sam ih ponovo čuo nakon nekog vremena. Što je točno utjecalo na to? Ne znam! Činjenica je i da mi jedna te ista muzika ne odgovara svaki dan, pa zato nisam niti u svom prvom postu ovdje negirao mogučnost da se i mi vjerojatno "usviravamo" uvijek iznova...(ne nisam mislio na usviravanje... )

[Mikorist]

O USVIRAVANJU - STA KAZU PROIZVODJACI ZVUCNIKA :

NEW FORM RESEARCH

“We state that after playing for 3 or 4 hours a day at moderate to loud levels, our speaker swiil e full broken in in 4 weeks. There will be a noticable improvement after the first three days.”

Our Comments:

No more than 84-112 hours are needed for burn in (run in) this manufacturer’s units.

THIEL

“I can say - only for our drivers - that these need a long burn-in period. We know from many audiophiles that the sound will improve dramatically during the first 30 hours, then settles over weeks and months. So give it some time.”

Our Comments:

Vague and useless reply for us. This is based on what users says, they are no indicating what is THEIR own experience and/or findings on this matter. Not a reply worth coming from a manufacturer, in our opinion.

SCANSPEAK

“I checked with the head R&D engineer for Scan-Speak, and here is how he responded to your question:

The drive units are not "burned in" when they leave our factory. However, the Thiele/Small parameters for Scan-Speak drivers are always given for units that are burned in - for the simple reason that it makes the designer's job easier, as all speakers will end up being burned in. Speaker units will automatically burn in when they are being used. If you buy a brand new speaker system (which normally is not burned in), complete burn-in will take about a month - depending on how often (and how loud) you listen to music. During burn-in the sound quality should improve.

There is a fast way to do it and the speaker designer should burn in the units (especially the woofers) before tuning the cabinet volume, damping material and port length (vented speaker) and trimming the cross-over network.

All you need is a sine wave generator and a power amplifier. Keep the drive unit in free air. Set the frequency to about 75% of the expected free air resonance frequency of the drive unit and turn up the voltage until the cone reaches full excursion without making mechanical noise. Let it run for 5 minutes and the job is done.

Notice that only Scan-Speak parameters are given for burned in drivers. You can expect the free air resonance frequency to drop about 10% (in some cases even up to 15% - the stiffer the spider, the bigger the change) during break-in. Naturally this affects the Q-values (they go down) and the equivalent volume (Vas goes up), as it is the suspension compliance that increases.”

Our Comments:

A very thorough explanation, very technical, and informing what method we should expect from a good designer to use and apply when calculating loudspeakers and chosing units. Would designers do this?

In about 5 minutes, the cones are burnt in with a signal tone. Using music, in about a month (depending of the frequency and volume we listen music at). At a rate of 3 hours daily, 90 hours would be all what we need to have our speakers burnt in

ATC

“We do not consider 'burn in' an issue. When our loudspeakers leave the factory they are in perfect working order and their performance will not change over time unless they are not cared for or get very old.

I think 'burn in' was probably invented by hi-fi dealers so that when they sell a cable for 500 euros and the customer complains he can't hear any difference the dealer can tell them it needs 'burning in'. After the customer has waited for two weeks for the cable to 'burn in' he has forgotten how his system sounded in the first place and can't be bothered to complain again.”

Our Comments:

What a reply!! We insisted on the subject, since this was the first direct answer, and curiously was at the same time dealing with cables and its unexistent virtues (We at Matrix HiFi are 100% coincident with this statement), so our second question received this reply:

“Hearing stories of 2300 Euro cables makes me quite angry. You can't put all the blame with the dealer, he is heavily influenced by the press who push benefits of cable and yes, perhaps manufacturers who do not believe in 'hi-end' cable should do more to let their customers know. I think the trick is to go to Hi-Fi shops wearing a blindfold. If it was only your ears you used to choose equipment then you would probably have a better system.

The facts are, no cable can improve the sound. A poor cable can only degrade the sound. I think that a lot of the 'sound' certain cables produce are down to problems with the design. For example, a cable with high capacitance attenuating the high frequencies.

Alot of it is also down to 'system tuning'. I think this is another silly idea - using a 'dull' component to cancel the effect of a 'bright' component. If manufacturers designed high performance, neutral components in the first place then this would not be needed. But saying that, with Hi-Fi, it is down to personal preferance.

As I think you have guessed, there are no magical solutions. Good audio equipment comes from good engineering. There are some psycho-acoustic phenomenon that we do not understand, but every other characteristic of an audio system can be measured accurately using modern test equipment. If a manufacturer does not have data to back up their claims then they are probably making it up.”

Our Comments:

When reading such a direct and clear answer, we can only say that we’d wish all manufacturers were as open and honest as this one.

BTW, ATC supports blind tests to evaluate systems…and before you ask: no, we are not affiliated nor have any commercial interests with this particular brand.

VIFA

“Tak for din mail. Tilspilning af højttalerenheder er som regel hørbart. Graden afhænger af enhedstypen, men Vifa's lavtabsophæng gør, at enhederne er lidt mindre følsomme overfor dette.

Der er ingen grund til at tilspille produkterne før de forlader fabrikken. Blot skal man sørge for, at de enheder man benytter til at afstemme højttaleren med, og designe delefiltret, allerede er tilspillede”

Our Comments:

Much the same response received from Scan Speak (no wonder they are part of the same group).

They are not being over explicit, they do not mention anything about the virtues of burning in a speaker unit, they use vague terminology such as “usually audible” and “the degree of audibility depends on the unit type” are not indicating us much, but at least confirms what we suspected: the speaker units are not burnt in prior to leaving the factory.

BEYMA

“BUFFFFFFFFFF:

Buena pregunta. ¿Siguiente pregunta?

A ver: De fábrica no sale rodado nada a no ser que lo indique el fabricante expresamente. Por lo tanto, sobre todo las gomas o telas que forman las suspensiones necesitan "ejercitarse" para llegar a su estado a largo plazo, esto es: Si se mide la frecuencia de resonancia de un altavoz nuevecito, sale más alta que lo apuntado en la hoja técnica. En la hoja técnica sí constan los parámetros del altavoz después de un período de uso.

Como en una fábrica no hay tiempo para tener durante días o semanas un altavoz con música, se fatiga el altavoz artificialmente: Se genera un tono de muy baja frecuencia, sin ponerlo en caja, al aire, para buscar el máximo desplazamiento. Así durante media hora. Luego se le deja descansar entre una a dos horas y se asume que el altavoz ya está fatigado y se mide.

Esto es determinante sobre todo para altavoces de bajas frecuencias, no tanto en medios y agudos.

En medios y agudos lo único que sucede es el envejecimiento de los materiales. Recordemos que el papel del cono se envejece, las telas también, las gomas, etc. Con los años van cambiando, especialmente si les da el sol. Normalmente es a peor, aunque en algún caso hay la leyenda de que el sonido mejora. Nada científico y demostrable, pero sí audible.

Mi opinión particular: con unos días debería ser suficiente, si está por lo menos cada tarde funcionando. Todo lo mas, un mes. Pero no es como un vino joven, no necesita 6 meses o un año. Si después de un mes no suena bien, no sonará mejor 5 años más tarde.”

Translation:

“Bufff…Good question….next please?

Let’s see…out of the factory nothing leaves already burnt in unless the customer specifically asks for. So, the rubber and fabrics used on the suspension need to “excercise” to get to its optimum stadium in the long run, that is: if you measire the FR of a new unit, it’ll be higher than the one indicated on the technical specs. On the tech specs we reflect the unit’s parameters after using the unit for a certain period. As in a factory there is no time to have a speaker burning in with music during days or weeks, we do this artificially, that is, applying a low frequency tone to a speaker without any box to get the max deplacement. We do this for about half an hour. Then we let it rest during a couple of hours and understand the units is already burnt in, then we do the measurements. This is important specially for woofers, no so much so for mids and tweeter units. On these two, the only thing that happens is that materials age. Don’t forget that paper cones gets old, so do the fabrics and the rubbers, etc. With the years, they change, specially if exposed to sun light. Normally it’s for the worse, but there are some legends out there saying that the sond gets better…nothing scientific and measurable, but certainly audible.

My personal opinion: only a few days of usage (refering to music) should be sufficient, at the most, one month, but it is not like wine, where it needs monthes or even years. If after one month it won’t sound good, it won’t get any better 5 years later”

Our Comments:

It’s been mention changes in the resonance frequency of the speaker cones (woofers) without specifying by how much, only that is different to the measured on a speaker unburnt.

VISATON

“In my opinion the difference people hear (if they hear it at all) in most cases is not because of the " burn in" of the speakers but because the ear adapts to the sound of the speaker.

There are of course some speakers (especially woofers) needing some kind of "burn in" to get the final stiffness especially of the spider. But normally it's enough to push the membrane a few times.”

Our Comments:

Clear and contundent reply: speakers don’t need any burn in period and those who say they can hear it is because their ears adapt to the sound of the speakers.

MANGER

“Our finished speakers get a factory burn-in time of 24 hours. We couldn't find a further difference after a longer time. I would also assume that people are speaking of burning in, but actually it is the time where the hearing sense get used to it.”

Traducción:

Nuestros altavoces son rodados en fábrica durante 24 horas. Somos incapaces de encontrar diferencias después de más tiempo. Asumiría también que la gente habla del rodaje, pero es el tiempo que el sentido del oído necesita para acostumbrarse al sonido.

Our Comments:

Yet another manufacturer with a clear message: To Manger, 24 hours makes the trick.

MADISOUND

“we are also being told that all units are burnt in prior to leaving the factory.

Who is saying that? Sound like a bold lie to me............unless its a small manufacture that can afford the time to do so.

Some says it needs a long burn in period, some others says a few hours or even minutes,

Yes this seems to be changing on a regular basis. I myself will only measure the T/S parameters after a 5 to 6 day burn-in at resonate freq. Some manufactures seem to have change their opinion on this over the years, only to suet their needs I believe.

Just be aware that speakers are made up of soft parts, and will break-in to some extent and also return to a certain state.

But will always be changing, and eventually wear-out!

Also the parts, and the driver as a whole is at the mercy of its environment. Such as temp, barometric pressure, humidity and altitude above sea level.

Some say Lowters sound the best just before they die, go figure.

I'm not try to skirt the question, but to say that they always will be breaking-in or should we say braking-down.

As Albert Einstein said " the universe is in a constant state of decline"

Just enjoy the music!”

MENISCUS AUDIO GROUP

“Sorry for the long delay. Your message was hidden among my old files.

We have no firm idea about burn in either. It seems most customer find that the system is sounding best after about 1 week of normal listening.”

Our Comments:

Yet another reply completely useless, based on hearsay.

ACOUSTIC ELEGANTE

“Burn in is really only for the suspension. You need to stretch the surround and spiders to their final compliance. 95% of breakin happens in the first few minutes. There is no burn in needed for the voicecoil itself. The properties of the copper or aluminum wire don't change over time.”

Our Comments:

According to this manufacturer, a speaker is burnt in in a few minutes, but most interestly is the comment about copper and aluminum properties, we could extrapolate this to cables, and conclude the same: cables do no need burn in period. Period.

JBL PRO

“I would say for very accurate precision tooled devices, the burn in period would be relatively short, if not non existent. Devices like these would be designed in a way to give maximum accuracy right out of the box. Perhaps it might take a few hours for the paper to settle, but minimum time period for this type of device.

Musical instrument speakers are a different story. The reports vary depending upon the desired result. If you are refurbishing a 40 or 50 year old amp, many times a good technician will really work out the fresh cone that is to be loaded with some test signal so that the paper will soften and sound more like what the player has grown accustomed to. Many of the vintage replacement speaker companies "pre break in" their off the shelf product. I have heard of different techniques to do this if this is not the case. In this application it is often desirable to soften the paper before use.

We "burn test" our speakers for power rating purposes but a fresh from the factory cone has only had test signal passed through it at the test booth on the line. We don't "break in" our paper.

For highly accurate JBL products this has been my personal experience:

Short (if not non-existent) break in period, then many years of accurate replication and then many years later eventual cone fatigue and the need for recone. I have been using JBL products since the 70's myself and gone through many recones/refurbs so I have a good deal of experience with fresh paper. I have recently reconed my 20 year old 4412 studio monitors. They had gotten a little "floppy" sounding and even thought the compliance was still in tact, it was time for fresh cones.

Guitar applications are a bit different and it really depends upon what you are trying to achieve. In some cases, I tend to like fairly well fatigued cones for certain guitar sounds. I have a 40 year old D120f with original paper (pretty crusty with patches). I will use this one just as it is until the coil burns or the cone falls completely apart. I love the way this speaker sounds! For clean applications, the fresher the paper, the cleaner the sound.

The bottom line is that from the moment a speaker starts to move air, the vibrations are impacting the cone. In some cases there might be a brief settling in period, but long term impact of sustained vibration is the eventual fatiguing of the cones. The more fatigued a cone becomes, the less accurate a device it is likely to be. So, if you want long term accuracy and maximum useful life of your speakers, do not put them through any rigorous "paper softening" process. The logical conclusion is that you will only shorten the useful life span of the speaker. If accuracy is not your goal and some form of "coloration" of the signal is what you have in mind (like for a guitar application) then go for it, it probably makes sense for what you are doing and you are not negatively impacting the long term end result.”

Our Comments:

Surprisingly, this manufacturer tells us about not forcing the run in period by using a signal tone, we’d only shorten the life span of it and add colorations to the sound.

EMINENCE SPEAKER

“Thank you for your inquiry. This come be a somewhat subjective matter, that's why you are get such controversial information. Burn in time can vary greatly from one speaker to another, even 2 of the same speaker. Burn in time does make a difference. The speaker will continually burn in for as long as you have it because it continually becomes softer. At some point, it will level out to where there is not a noticeable difference. There is no real specific amount of time or ways of accomplishing it that is a standard. No burn in is done on our speakers prior to leaving the factory”

Our Comments:

Somewhat esoteric, isn’t it? They are telling us that even in between 2 identical speakers the burn in period may be different…According to this manufacturer, the speakers are constantly being burned in while it’s being used…mhhh…

AUDIOTECHNOLOGY

“Thanks for your mail.

Your question is a good question and I will try to answer it as well as possible.

There is great difference between the different drivers, when it comes to “running in”

A woofer can be run in relatively quickly, but in hours? – I am not sure. Our woofers, with a relatively high compliance, can be run in, in a day or so, where the more stiff drivers, like PA drivers takes a week or more.

When it comes to midranges, it is another story. The sound of a midrange can change up to month after it has been played for the first time. I personally, have recently become the lucky owner of a pair of Peak Consult “El Diablo” – a true work of art – but that is another story. When they were first connected, the sound was impressive but not great, but after a couple of days, the bass was wonderful. I played them 24/7 to break them in as fast as possible. Now, after 2 month, the midrange is also great. It has been changing every day, since the first. The tweeter is still changing – bringing less “S” sounds to the female voices and adding to the image day by day. Today my listening room tends to be much bigger than it really is, and is still getting bigger (hope the walls wound fall down on me).

As you can understand, it is individual how long time it takes to burn in a speaker, but in general you can say that the bigger the driver, the faster it will be run in or you could express it in another way also: The more the cone moves, the faster the driver is run in.

Hope this answer is adequate for you. Otherwise, please write again.”

So we did:

“Thanks for a very clarifying reply, however, it raises up another question:

If a driver sounds better after burn in, why is it that (apparently) no manufacturer sells its units already burnt in?

Also, is there a certain music program preferred or to avoid when burning in a driver?”

And the anwer to our second mail was:

“Thanks for your mail.

Yes, you are right – we ought to burn in all the drivers, but – we do not have the time or the facilities to do it.

It is the same with a car………. It also runs better and has better fuel economy after some thousand miles, but can you imagine the Toyota factories driving some thousand miles before delivering each car?

There is no preferred music, when burning in speakers. I personally use pink noise, when I am not at home. Else any music that makes the drivers move as much as possible.”

Our Comments:

Blah, blah, blah,…we can’t say we were impressed considering the manufacturer’s reputattion. He was an inch away from offering for sale the Peak Consult speakers…

However, he’s telling us that it depends of the cone type. Woofers with high compliance can be burnt in on one day, while mids might need up to a month…

HIVI - SWAN SPEAKER SYSTEMS

“Burn in is crucial, a system will sound incredibly different after initial burn in. Personaly I would recommend an 18-24 hour burn in period. The difference is huge. Some manufacturers will pre burn in their systems although most do not, HiVi does not although we used to years ago. We have since taken up the policy that it’s better to save this tradition for the end user.

In general even after systems are burnt in, many Hi-End audio companies will always leave their demo systems running over night before an exhibition as the electronics will always sound a bit better after they have been running for awhile. While this “warmed up” system only has a slight improvement people will do what they can to get any advantage in sound at Hi-End shows.

I hope this information helps.”

Our Comments:

18-24 hours is all they say it needs.

JORDAN

“Your question is a very interesting one. There are several answers but none that can be dealt with in a few words. Unfortunately our Company is just closing for vacation but I will be pleased to discuss this further when we re-open in about 3 weeks.”

Our Comments:

No comments.

ADIRE AUDIO

“Thanks for the e-mail! Loudspeakers will change with burn-in, but it is not a permanent thing. Each time you play them again it will take a minute or two for the driver to “break in” and reach equilibrium. And if you dramatically change the volume you will also need to let them break in at the new volume level.

There are two things that change a driver over time and over operation:

Heating of the motor structure/voice coil – the average temperature of the driver will affect the DCR, and thus the Qes of the driver. Excessive heat can cause a reduction in magnet force as well.

Creep/set in the spider. The more a spider moves, the greater the change in average compliance, and there can be an offset in the suspension (forward or backward) as well. This will affect the Vas, Qes, and Fs of the driver.

If you measure a driver at low (100 mV) levels, it will measure differently than at higher levels (1V, or 10V). The way the driver “relaxes” back to its original state will also change – in terms of time and the profile of the relaxation curves.

So I would say you do need burn-in of a speaker, but it is typically a minute or so, and occurs every time you start the speaker from cold.

Most burn-in claims that occur after 100-200 hours are related more to a user become comfortable with the sound, and in fact the sound becoming their “reference” for what a speaker should sound like.”

Our Comments:

Very professional answer: a speaker needs 1 minute or so, period.

ORCA DESING

“A simple question with a complex answer.

The reason that a burn in period is needed is that the speaker construction materials change over time.

Playing music causes the materials to flex,

Different frequencies and loudness cause different parts of the cone to flex when natural resonances are excited.

As the materials flex they become softer and less resonate.

They also develop preferred “flex lines” like wrinkles on your skin, so that when they do flex, less distortion is produced.

This reduces the height of resonant peaks in the frequency response.

Thus a “smoother” sound as they break in.

Different materials take different amounts of time to fully relax.

The speaker is made from several different materials so different parts take different amounts of time.

Soft materials like non-pressed paper cones need only a few minutes, a hard treated paper or plastic cone takes about 1 week, a soft dome tweeter takes about 2 weeks for the rubber to stabilize, hard things like metal dome tweeters or metal cones take several weeks or months, real ribbon tweeters need just a few minutes while plastic planar tweeters need about 1 week.

The treated cloth spider on a woofer needs about 5 minutes at suspension maximum travel or about 1 month playing music at low volume.

Burning in at the factory is not an industry standard.

There are a few audiophile speaker brands that claim to do that.

Most home speakers receive about a 5 second quality control check at about 1 watt power.

Professional sound speakers usually get a 10 second test at maximum rated power to check for rub and buzz.

Old speakers that sound “dull” can usually be brought back to life by installing new polypropylene capacitors in the crossover.

Electrolytic capacitors can change their value 50 percent across 5 years – rate of change depends on how hot they operate.

Inductors and resistors are very stable across 10 years.

Part of the break period in is you brain getting used to the frequency response errors and distortion characteristics of the “new improved” speaker.

When I am designing a new speaker I first run pink noise through the speakers before making frequency response tests.

1 minute at 1 watt, then 1 minute at maximum rated AES power.

Please note that AES power is different than marketing literature power handling claims!

I guess this covers about 90 percent of any break in performance changes”

Our Comments:

We found it hard to believe that burn in times can be given to us with such precision according to the material used on the cone, specially when this manufacturer is telling us that prior to measure the cones he’s applying 1 watt AES during 1 minute, then another minute at max. rated power for said unit: Why not burning in according to what he himself says, that is, depending on the type and material of the cone, as he’s clearly telling us it matters?

MOREL USA

“Some loudspeakers will literally take 2-3 months to fully break in under normal use. Most speakers will break in within 2-3 weeks. Very few speakers will break in within hours. The break in time on loudspeakers mainly depends on the construction of the suspension (spider and surround) of the drivers. I hope I was helpful.”

Our Comments:

According to this manufacturer, 2-3 weeks and it’s done. At 4 hours/day, about 70 hours.

HIQUPHON

“I am sorry to tell you, that I really have no idea whether or not different speaker unit manufacturers burn in their products.

I would say: They don't! Why?, Well, as it is too expensive in mass production, and it would take up a lot of space having ordinary bass midrange speaker lined up hundreds per day or more playing LOUD.

Then again maybe some do sweep the single unit with more or less power for some seconds and then claim they have now been burned in? In that case it is worthless of course.

As for Hiquphon tweeters I know they are not burned in and I also know that they don't need to, as they hardly change parameters after having played for days under normal conditions. I am not saying you can't measure a theoretical difference, but it will be such a small change in final parameters that this drift will disappear in all the different tolerances from other equipment that it is part of.

Was that any help? ;-)”

FINAL THOUGHTS AND NOTES

Obviously, we kept all email exchange with manufacturers. The names of those who signed the messages are kept anonymous for privacy reason. Everyone has been kind enough to reply our Q’s, not all of those whom a message was sent replied, but, we have what we have from those who has taken the time and effort to send back their thoughts, and we worked based on that. In the future, we’ll try to get answers from other manufacturers such as B&W, Wilson, Sonus Faber and more, so we’ll be able to compare their replies with the ones given by some of the speaker manufacturers whose units are being used by. There might be people that are not in agreement with the conclussions arrived to on this article, but we think we should all agree that from our side, at Matrix HiFi, we go the extra mile trying to get as much information as we can to be able to judge an article that seemed interesting to us, but it clearly was against the general conception about what we thought we knew concerning the much discussed issue on speakers burn in.

A personal reflexion:

If we grab a speaker and we claim that from newly constructed it is on an imaginary point -10 (relative to performance) and the optimum point we found it in 0, we could understand that in between -10 and 0 is where the burn in period is, but, the logical question would be: How long the speaker will stay at that 0 point and how long will it take to go from 0 to +1…etc. until it degrades? We are talking of a mechanical movement, we are talking of the suspension of the cones (inner and outer suspension –the spider-) moving, getting softer. Will It reach a point where it won’t get any softer? Maybe, but it’ll reach also a point where the suspension collapses, and if this process was linear (don’t forget this burn in might take 100 hrs according to some manufacturers)…What happens with the suspension at 200 hours? Is it more “burnt in”? Or is it more…degraded?? (as another manufacturer claims). For how long will the suspension “live” within the optimal point if we consider tht burn in is somehow a degradation process? Is it true that from day 0 (or the point -10) the woofers starts degrading its material due to usage? We could ask ourselves: How long will it take in between speaker replacement to always keep it at its optimum? What is the life span of a speaker?

Questions that might not have answers, we’ll be always somehow in the dark, since nothing is absolute…with or without Burn In.

---------------------------

IZVOR:

http://www.matrix-hifi.com/ENG_contenedor_rodajealtavoces.htm

nadam se da je tema postala malo zanimljivija

[Mikorist]

pitanje za sve:da li je neko uspeo da izmeri promene u zvuku izmedju 0 i recimo 100 radnih casova zvucnika ?ako se zvucnik usvirava koji to TS parametri , menjaju sonicni kvalitet ?

odgovor je ovde :http://www.vikash.info/audio/audax/

[krvimozak]

I auto se razradjuje. I zensku moras polako da razradis ako zelis da iz nje izvuces maximum. Zvucnik, kao takav, tj. kao pojava koja je sofisticiranija od navedenog, trazi isto...

Inaće, iako mu je hifa posao, uopće ne zarezuje većinu mitova koji se mogu isčitati po forumima!

A tko to od nas ovde zarezuje?

[BokiTokiVoki]

ATC

“We do not consider 'burn in' an issue. When our loudspeakers leave the factory they are in perfect working order and their performance will not change over time unless they are not cared for or get very old.

I think 'burn in' was probably invented by hi-fi dealers so that when they sell a cable for 500 euros and the customer complains he can't hear any difference the dealer can tell them it needs 'burning in'. After the customer has waited for two weeks for the cable to 'burn in' he has forgotten how his system sounded in the first place and can't be bothered to complain again.”

Najjače!!

ATC pravi jedne od najboljih basova i srednjetonaca na svetu. Kod mene su imali vrh status, a sada su još porasli u mojim očima. Funny people.

[boban 85]

Koliko sam zapamtio kod Dickansona, glavni razlog burn in je utvrdjivanje da li je neki driver ispravan ili ne. Da se parametri promene, ali da ce kalkulacija kutije za oba primera biti ista, odnosno da se kriva spl ne menja puno.

[misa]

Postovani,malo vezano za temu a malo OFF, da li je neko pravio ili barem slusao zvucnike od Dinica iz Nisa?Pozdrav Misa

[Sipi]

...glavni razlog burn in je utvrdjivanje da li je neki driver ispravan ili ne. ...

To moze da bude i sporedan razlog - glavni bi bio da se slusalac privikne na zvuk novih zvucnika. Culo sluha je adaptivno i vremenom covek navikne - sto je zvucnik kreketaviji i naporniji, vreme navikavanja/usviravanja je duze...

[boban 85]

Ali on nije pominjao usviravanje, nego spajanje na sine ne znam koje frekvencije i koliko dugo i koliko snazno.

Ne secam se tacno sta je pominjao pa nisam hteo da iznosim. Ono sto mi zovemo usviravanje je nesto drugo, ali ako posle onog burn in-a nema nekih razlika nece ni posle usviranja, tj. dugog slusanja.

[Sipi]

Ali on nije pominjao usviravanje....

Pusti ti njega, on covek zna sta prica - nije on za nase drustvo....

[michabass]

ATC je dao najbolji odgovor pa Visaton pa JBL. :bravo:Usviravanje kao izraz je loša kovanica...nema usviravanja. radi se o mehaničkom "razradjivanju" suspenzije zvučnika koje se ostvari jako brzo uz dovoljno "jak" signal. Ja lično "usviravam" nove basove koje ugradjujem test signalom od 20-30Hz, dovedem ih skoro do pune ekskurzije membrane ali pre mehaničkog klipinga same suspenzije i ostavim da rade minut ili dva....i to je to...