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Woland

Step Up MC transformatori

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nisam primetio da je ovakva tema bila, ukratko: nešto malo (više iskustveno) znam u vezi njih, ali uvek se nešto pojavi što ne razumem.. neposredan povod su MC-10 step up od Menno Van Der Veen:

1_dimensions_mc10.jpg

2_mc10.jpg

3_mc10.jpg

mc10frontpage.jpg

 

evo i kompletnog teksta: https://mennovanderveen.nl/mc10/mc-10-en.pdf

a evo mu ga i sajt: https://mennovanderveen.nl/eng/index.html

piše da su univerzalni, ali ne umem da iz teksta izvučem osnovne specifikacije (prenosni odnos, loading itd), vidim da su moguće različite postavke, bio bi zahvalan kada bi neko to umeo da izvuče i obasja me saznanjem :)

ako neko zna i ima volje da postavi linkove (kalkulatore itd), vezane za ovu tematiku, takođe bih bio zahvalan

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Rin, RC and CC. With these external components a very precise
adjustment for optimal load and frequency transfer from any moving coil cartridge to the MM
pre amp input can be realized.

 

 

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Together with the input impedance (RL and CL) of the MM pre amp, the MC-10 transformer
creates a certain load to the MC cartridge. This load equals 344 Ohm

 

Quote

As an example, I now discuss a cartridge with an optimal load ZL = 150 Ohm. To realize this
value, the extra resistor R
in should be inserted. Its value can be calculated by the following
formula: R
in = (344 * 150) / (344 – 150) = 267 Ohm (take the E12 standard value of 270
Ohm). Another example: suppose the optimal value of Z
L should be equal to 67 Ohm. Then Rin
= (344 * 67) / (344 – 67) = 83 Ohm (take the E12 standard value of 82 Ohm)
 

 

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High frequency adjustments of the MC-10
Inside the MC-10 various resistors, inductors and capacitors are present. In physics language
this means that electrical resonances might occur. The MC-10 is designed in such a manner
that under most conditions these resonances are well damped. However, when the wire
resistance R
DC of the coil of the MC cartridge is smaller than 20 Ohm, an external correction is
needed for. Now R
DC is the critical factor. Refer to the manufacturer specifications of your MC
cartridge to find its value.
It is mandatory to remove high frequency resonances inside the transformer. Suppose you
don’t, then at high frequencies the amplitude will get larger and will last longer. This effect is
described in literature as “ringing”. When listening to it the character of the sound will be too
fresh, too sharp and thin. Probably you will get tired of listening to it. An extra effect is a
strong deviation in the time behavior of the signal. Phase deviations will occur. Even worse is
severe differential phase distortion. The latest tells about a sound complex (a sound burst
comprising many frequencies, like the sound of a drum kit) with its envelope. When differential
phase distortion occurs, low frequencies are delayed more than high frequencies. As a result
the envelope of the sound burst is distorted. Our hearing mechanism not only detects
frequencies and times of arrival, but also detects the nature of the envelope (this is done by
the a-linear amplitude transfer of the ear, in fact by a distortion mechanism inside the ear).
As a consequence, the differential phase distortion should be very small, and therefore high
frequency resonances should be well damped.
To solve all these nasty issues, a very simple activity should be performed: add R
C and CC.
 

 

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zasad je sve jasno ......

 

ono sto ja volem , a sto svako moze da proba sta je bolje , je da additional load stavljam na sekundarnu stranu , jer se time vrsi dodatni damping trafoa , dok Meno vole da turi taj R u formi Rin na primarnoj strani , tako da loaduje samo cartridge a ne i  trafo

ja vec zaboravio gde se taj loading nalazi kod tebe na Nagri - da li na strani cartridge ili na strani sekundara (u paraleli sa 47K)?

cisto da se podsetimo kako oni to rade

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mda ....... to je kod tebe na klot ulazu na Nagri , SUT je napolju ...... tako da je zakljucak da jeste paralelno sa 47K

 

silly me , jos trosim prvu jutarnju kavu

 

kad dojdis kod mene , dogovorimo se kako i na cemu da organizujemo da sam probas ........ kako je bolje organizovati loading - na strani cartridge ili na strani sekundara

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jes, radili smo to sa potenciometrom, pa sam merio vrednost i potom lemio odgovarajući otpornik.. skontao sam da MC-10 imaju prenos 1:10, pitanje je da li mogu biti upotrebljivi za EMT TSD 15 N SFL, njoj navodno treba loading veći od 200 Ohm, evo specifikacija:

  • Rounding radius (microns) 15 SPH / 6 SFL / 4 VDH
  • Tracking force (mN) 20 - 30
  • Impedance 2 x 24 Ohm
  • Sensitivity mVs / cm 0.21
  • Frequency range (Hz) 20 ... 30000
  • Crosstalk min. 25 db
  • FIM max.0,5%
  • Vertical tracing angle 23 ° (± 3 °)
  •  Compliance 15 microns / mN

mogu li MC-10 da se upare sa TSD 15?

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a prenosni odnos - u textu kaze 10 :

Quote

The MC-10 transforms the small output voltages of a moving coil cartridge into a 10 times
larger voltage for direct connection to the MM input of a pre amplifier.

 

dok u tabeli pise Np/Ns=12

mal mi je mnogo da transfer opadne za cela 2 (12navedeno-10navedeno) al' ajde .....

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1 minute ago, Woland said:

jes, radili smo to sa potenciometrom, pa sam merio vrednost i potom lemio odgovarajući otpornik.. skontao sam da MC-10 imaju prenos 1:10, pitanje je da li mogu biti upotrebljivi za EMT TSD 15 N SFL, njoj navodno treba loading veći od 200 Ohm, evo specifikacija:

  • Rounding radius (microns) 15 SPH / 6 SFL / 4 VDH
  • Tracking force (mN) 20 - 30
  • Impedance 2 x 24 Ohm
  • Sensitivity mVs / cm 0.21
  • Frequency range (Hz) 20 ... 30000
  • Crosstalk min. 25 db
  • FIM max.0,5%
  • Vertical tracing angle 23 ° (± 3 °)
  •  Compliance 15 microns / mN

mogu li MC-10 da se upare sa TSD 15?

 

 

pise hund ali pise i mile

ako rascitas text , max (klot) loading sa MC10 je 344 oma ......... moguce sve ispod a preko toga -trazi drugi trafo

dakle , 200 postizes dodavanjem Menovog Rin od 477R ili na strani sekundara (477x N^2 = 477x100=)47K700

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prvi kriterijum je - da li ti odgovara gain od 10V/V za predmetni cartridge

 

ako ti odgovara , onda ides na razmisljanje o loadingu i kako ga ostvariti

 

 

sa 0.21mV dolazis na 2.1mV

 

sto se mene tice , tu moze i 20x trafo , ali iz iskustva znamo da sto veci prenosni odnos , veca frka

dakle probas i sta bude

no , znajuci tvoju stalu SUTova ...... jedino pundravci mogu da objasne nabavku i ovoga

 

ista jasnije sad ?

ono - mogao si sacekati da prva kafa kick in , skontao bi onda i sam ......... al ajd neka se piskara , a da nije preprodaja i mzb

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34 minutes ago, Zen Mod said:

nego , to se ti iz prikrajka koorchish za TSD15

ma jok.. još :)

ali, TSD15 ima visoku kompliansu, i teška je, kompliansa ista a težina nešto malo veća od BM LPS, ali to 4Point može da svari.. e, sad se kurčim :D

 

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