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PS Audio Gain Cell... Kako to radi?


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17 odgovor(a) na ovu temu

#1 zika

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Odgovor 13 October 2011 - 16:49

Na preporuku Druga Mike otvaram pitanje o tome kako radi http://www.psaudio.c...audio-gain-cell u odvojenom thread-u...Eto, toliko od mene...

No use permitting some prophet of doom to wipe every smile away. Come hear the music play. || Tough times never last, tough people do... || In a search for the best simulacrum... || Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better. Samuel Beckett, Worstward Ho (1983)


#2 Miko

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Odgovor 13 October 2011 - 18:13

Postavljena slika



Quatre Gain Cell amplifier


mozda bi mogli da saznamo kako on radi prvo :wink2:

na baterije ? :msn-rofl:

#3 stoN_Cold

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Odgovor 13 October 2011 - 18:27

Које су то батерије?

#4 Miko

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Odgovor 13 October 2011 - 18:31

na big DIY lik kaze da je ovaj patent:

http://www.diyaudio....tml#post1733492

Voltage controlled attenuator

Patent number: 4155047
Filing date: 11 Jan 1978
Issue date: 15 May 1979


http://www.google.co...epage&q&f=false


gledajuci shemu - ovo je neko ludilo

#5 Miko

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Odgovor 13 October 2011 - 18:52

deo teksta patenta


This invention relates to a voltage controlled attenua- by loading effects on the gain cell, tor and more specifically to
a voltage controlled attenu- 5 In this invention there is described a voltage collator having wide dynamic range and low
distortion. trolled attenuator comprising a pair of gain cells having
The basic gain cell principle concerns the use and low current densities and in which each cell is directly
modification of differential amplifiers and has been the fed by a linearized current source adapted to receive
subject of articles and experimentation. appropriate input signals. In the preferred embodiment,
For example, the Quatre Company of Canoga Park, 10 the low current densitis are achieved by using large area
California 91304, has recently published an article enti- transistors for maintaining the low current densities,
tied "Quatre Gain Cells Solid State Electronic Prod- however, it is also contemplated that parallel multiple
ucts." The Quatre article describes and illustrates the transistors may also be used to provide the increased
gain cell approach the bipolar transistor audio products. areas needed to minimize the current density problem.
The term "gain cell" is believed first used by B. Gilbert IS The gain cells are controlled by a single control volt
in the referred-to article and has been described as a age that feeds both control cells simultaneously,
log/antilog transconductance multiplier. A linearized buffer amplifier is connected to the out
The present invention is concerned primarily with put of each gain cell for minimizing loading on the gain
utilizing the basic concepts of the gain cell as an essen- cell thereby minimizing distortion,
rial element in a voltage controlled attenuator having an 20 A differential output amplifier is fed by the buffer
extremely wide dynamic range and lower distortion amplifiers for generating an output signal in which the
components that have heretofore been achieved by the effect of the control voltage in the output signal is elimi
prior art. nated and any DC shift caused by changes in control
A voltage controlled attenuator is bascially a gain voltage and residual distortion is removed by the operacontrol
device used to control the gain of an external 25 tion of the differential output amplifier, circuit which may be a
receiver, a switching device, or The circuit is implemented by utilizing a pair of tranany other remotely controlled
electronic circuitry. sistors in each gain cell in which each pair of transistors
It is usually most desirable to use a low level control have emitters connected together and each pair of emit
voltage and preferably a DC voltage to control the gain ters is fed directly by a separate linearized current
of some external electronic device and usually this con- 30 source adapted to receive reciprocal input signals,
trol takes place at a remote location. By utilizing a DC One transistor of each pair in the gain cell has the
control voltage the operator can be located at a remote base and collector connected together and to signal
location without fear of affecting the circuit being con- ground. The bases of the other transistor of each pair
trolled. are then connected together and fed by a single control
In the typical case input signals to be controlled are 35 voltage,
differentially fed to a pair of gain cells also controlled The gain cell circuit may therefore be likened to a
by a DC voltage control for varying the gain of the pair of differential amplifiers with the control voltage
input signal. The output signals from the gain ceils are driving one base of each pair of transistors comprising
fed to a differential amplifier which has the well known the gain cells.
effect of cancelling out the DC effect caused by the 40 A separage resistor is connected from each of the
control voltage used on the gain cells and allowing only collectors of the other transistors comprising the gain
the attenuated AC signal to appear in the output of the cells to a voltage source thereby developing the output
differential amplifier. Unfortunately these devices voltage from the gain cells across these load resistors,
lacked speed and dynamic range and suffered from A buffered differential amplifier is connected across
distortion. 45 the load resistors for generating the output signal.

#6 Miko

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Odgovor 13 October 2011 - 19:10

DSCN2993.jpg DSCN2998.jpg

#7 stoN_Cold

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Odgovor 13 October 2011 - 19:15

Из које године је тај појачавач, мени личи да је матор.

#8 Miko

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Odgovor 13 October 2011 - 19:18

Из које године је тај појачавач, мени личи да је матор.

quatre_front1.jpg

quatre-back1.jpg

1979 :oke:



"In 2004, PS Audio invented the Gain Cell™." :D

Eto, toliko od mene...

#9 stoN_Cold

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Odgovor 13 October 2011 - 19:21

1979 :oke:

Ииииии :buehehe:

#10 zika

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Odgovor 13 October 2011 - 19:44

Da, ali da ne upadnemo u zamku da te dve stvari zato što imaju iste nadimke posmatramo kao iste, ako, možda i nisu...

No use permitting some prophet of doom to wipe every smile away. Come hear the music play. || Tough times never last, tough people do... || In a search for the best simulacrum... || Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better. Samuel Beckett, Worstward Ho (1983)


#11 Miko

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Odgovor 13 October 2011 - 19:56

In 2004, PS Audio invented the Gain Cell™. The Gain Cell is a unique variable gain amplification stage that eliminates the need for volume controls, attenuators or potentiometers of any kind to adjust the volume in a preamplifier or integrated amplifier.
Gain Cells are superior to the use of a fixed gain amplifier or preamplifier stage with an associated attenuator.


What’s inside the Gain Cell?

Each Gain Cell is built around a Gilbert Cell, which is a similar to a voltage controlled amplifier where the audio signals all remain in the current domain until the very last point on the Gain Cell’s output. Keeping the audio in the current domain, rather than the voltage domain, means that the Gain Cells maintain perfect linearity through the entire 100dB range the Cell enjoys.
Each Gain Cell must be hand tuned before it is encased in the epoxy. After encasement, there are three trimpots used to tweak the Gain Cell’s performance on a per-unit basis. These adjustments mean we can set each Gain Cell’s performance to within 1/10th of a dB between channels within any particular unit we choose to build.
Each Gain Cell is 100% analog. That means there are no digital parts inside the Gain Cell. Each Gain Cell is a fully balanced design from input to output with no coupling capacitors anywhere near the signal. Gain Cells have one of the cleanest, purest audio paths in the world.


znachi - zajednicki izrazi su attenuator, Gain Cell, Gilbert Cell...


Patent number: 4155047 je Voltage controlled attenuator - Quatre firme


---
The Gain Cell™ is the culmination of Paul’s 25 years of research and work, turned over to PS Engineering to bring the Gain Cell to life in its modular form.

jos da saznamo da je Paul radio za Quatre - imamo odgovor na temu. :wink2:

inace kad se oduzme
2004 - 25 = 1979 dobije sa godina patenta....

#12 zika

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Odgovor 13 October 2011 - 19:58

Sad će Sipi da nam to sve, lepo, objasni. Ja tu, negde, vidim i buffer... ;)

No use permitting some prophet of doom to wipe every smile away. Come hear the music play. || Tough times never last, tough people do... || In a search for the best simulacrum... || Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better. Samuel Beckett, Worstward Ho (1983)


#13 Miko

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Odgovor 13 October 2011 - 20:27

The Gain Cell™ is the culmination of Paul’s 25 years of research and work, turned over to PS Engineering to bring the Gain Cell to life in its modular form.

Founded in 1974, PS Audio was started by audio designers Paul McGowan (the P) and Stan Warren (the S). Stan Warren left the company in the early 1980s to form Superphon (still recognized as having created some good sounding but affordable audio equipment), and his place as audio designer and co-owner was taken over by Dr. Bob Odell, an audio designer himself, having created some of the notable Harman Kardon designs (back when they made higher quality equipment). McGowan left the company in 1990 to join Arnie Nudell of Infinity systems in building High End loudspeakers with Genesis Technologies. In early 1998, PS Audio Inc. ceased operations due to financial problems. Shortly thereafter, Paul McGowan bought back the name 'PS Audio', and has been the principal designer for new products. In January 1999, Paul left Genesis Technologies to devote full time to PS Audio. In the first quarter of 2000, the new PS Audio International grew at such a rapid rate that Peter Rudy was added as President of the corporation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PS_Audio a o firmi "Quatre Company of Canoga Park, 10" ne mogu nista da pronadjem. ali ni jotu preko interneta.kao da nije ni postojala :this: iako je ocigledno postojala 70ih

#14 prophet

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Odgovor 13 October 2011 - 22:00

U tekstu na prvoj fotografiji piše: "The gain cell concept was developed by Dave Gore..."

#15 Miko

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Odgovor 14 October 2011 - 00:18

U tekstu na prvoj fotografiji piše: "The gain cell concept was developed by Dave Gore..."

11-02-05: Dotsystem
The Gain Cell design of PS Audio and that of Quatre/QMI are unrelated. The marketing pitch for the Quatre Gain Cell implied a complimentary symmetrical channel design that was supposed to cancel out non-linearities.

I spoke recently to Dave Gore, designer of the Quatre/QMI Gain Cell series. He commented that he did not claim to invent the term Gain Cell and felt it rather generic.

Bob

http://forum.audiogo...&openflup&7&4#7



i josh:


In Reply to: Quatre Preamplifier posted by Jesscott on June 7, 2006 at 20:23:09:

The Quatre BOD 1 preamp was designed by Dr. Bob O'Dell (also designed the PS Audio 200C amplifier and one of the HK Citation amps) and sold factory-direct. It was manufactured by Quatre (headed by Guy Hickey) of Canoga Park during the mid- to late-70's. It is pretty rare, and was often partnered with Quatre's DLH 100 amplifier (before their Gain Cell/Dave Gore-designed amps). The company went out of business in the early 80's.

http://www.audioasyl.../12/126851.html

e ovo je tek sad ludnica:

Founded in 1974, PS Audio was started by audio designers Paul McGowan (the P) and Stan Warren (the S). Stan Warren left the company in the early 1980s to form Superphon (still recognized as having created some good sounding but affordable audio equipment), and his place as audio designer and co-owner was taken over by Dr. Bob Odell, an audio designer himself, having created some of the notable Harman Kardon designs (back when they made higher quality equipment).


Quatre fabrika prakticno se utopila u PS Audio :buehehe:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PS_Audio

#16 uargsibuna

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Odgovor 14 October 2011 - 07:53

Mali off: posebno mi se dopao opis potrosnje pojacala Quatre GC 500.
Na leru 80W a maksimum 1,5kW. :respect: Ljudi fakat nisu bili foliranti...

..............................................


#17 dvv

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Odgovor 14 October 2011 - 08:08

U svakom slučaju, Miko, tebi hvala što si se istrudio onoliko.Nije me mrzelo da pročitam onu reklamu za pojačavače snage. Iz teksta, nisam video bilo šta što već od ranije nije bilo poznato, iz drugih izvora. To je možda za ono vreme bilo revolucionarno, ali danas i vrapci znaju da se uz malo pažnje, pojačavačvko kolo može napraviti tako da u otvorenoj petlji dobaci i prebaci 100 kHz, da ima relativno mala izobličenja svih vrsta i da nam, prema tome, ne treba 40 dB i više negativne sprege. Verujem da su odavno prošli dani kada su pojačavači snage u otvorenoj petlji dobacivali do 2...3 kHz, pa im je trebalo mnogo NFB da liče na nešto.Poredivši reklamu sa kasnijim tekstom, čini mi se da je Živorad u pravu, to nije ista stvar, samo je naziv isti. VCA (Voltage Controlled Amplifier) je, u principu, stara stvar i prilično je dobro poznata kao ideja, koristile su ga i firme kao što je Technics u njihovim top modelima, gde je pot za glasnost deloavo u okviru kola povratne sprege, mada naravno nikada ne treba odbaciti mogućnost neke nove varijacije na temu, koja je možda bolja od prethodnih.Sve u svemu, ukoliko nije neka nova varijacija na temu, meni se čini da je ovo uglavnom čist marketing, u stilu nije diferencijalni par, nego je "simetričan pozitivno-negativni pojačavački član", nije šija nego vrat. I previše toga ima, posebno danas.

#18 dvv

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Odgovor 14 October 2011 - 08:14

Mali off: posebno mi se dopao opis potrosnje pojacala Quatre GC 500.
Na leru 80W a maksimum 1,5kW. :respect: Ljudi fakat nisu bili foliranti...

Slažem se, ali oni jasno navode da iz većeg modela imaju i do 500W u 2 Oma po kanalu, to treba napajati iz ozbiljnih izvora ako se traži takva snaga. 500W po kanalu, dakle puta 2, plus gubitci koji su neizbežni, i eto potrošnje od 1,5 kW.

Kamo lepe sreće da današnja industrija malo više radi kao što se nekada radilo.




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